Originator: Where did enmity against God begin?
Romans 8:7 KJV
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
First Person: In the garden?
Second Person: The garden?
Third Person: The 1st Adams mind and maybe will?
Fourth Person: When Adam sinned.
Fifth Person: Adam willingly disobeyed God having been created with the fullness of the Holy Ghost and the ability to choose. Adam and Eve chose enmity against God.
Sixth Person: It started when God said "Thou shalt not".
Fourth Person: I kind of differ on that thought Sixth Person. I believe Adam still had choice to keep his will subject to Gods. Just as Jesus kept his will subject to his fathers. If we walk in the spirit we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. As long as I walk in the spirit I am keeping my will/nature/carnal mind subject to God. But if I live in the flesh then indeed my carnal mind is not subject to God.
Seventh Person: I "think" I understand the intent of your question. However, in the verse you used (Rom. 8:7) the context is not referring to "the garden". It may have parallels, but in this particular verse, the BEGINNING of this "carnality", is when I use my "carnal" mind to believe I can be justified (made righteous) by the works of the law. I believe, when I read the 6th, 7th, and 8th chapters together, it becomes "apparent" to me that this is the context of this scripture. Notwithstanding, I also believe, the only way I am to understand what happened in the garden, is if I can understand the same principle in myself. Without this acknowledgement of what is in me, that was the same as in Adam, I will never know the principles of truth, about the garden. I think Sixth Person’s post about "when" it began, deserves consideration. For without the commandment, their was nothing for Adam "to choose" that would be "enmity" against God. The phrase, "free choice", of necessity demand further explanation. So in order for me to "know" this great truth, it is the same as with all other pertinent knowledge; I must understand it within myself. So I would ask, "WHEN" does it begin in me?
Fifth Person: I agree that it started when God challenged Adam to obey leaving Adam in the valley of decision. We don't know how long Adam existed before his decision to disobey God but I'm certain it was longer than we think. It has already begun.
Sixth Person: to Fourth Person: We do not disagree. My point was prior to God saying "Thou shalt not" there was no temptation for Adam/Eve to disobey. Paul said "I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived (came alive), and I died”. Of course Adam/Eve had a choice, but not until the "commandment came", which took place when God said "Thou shalt not”.
Originator: It seems the enmity in us is totally against life itself like as if we self destruct.
Third Person: Did they actually have free will, or was their will tied to their flesh? And the commandment was the revelation of this.
Fourth Person to Sixth Person: agreed, free will came when the commandment came. But I don't think that as soon as the commandment came that they yielded. If my parents tell me not to get in the cookie jar, and for 10 minutes I don't. Then for those 10 minutes I was not against the law of my parents. But after 10 minutes I stick my hand in the jar...now I have gone against and my will is against my parents.
Fifth Person: With Adam time wasn't an issue so it could have been a very long time before Adam chose to transgress. No doubt it was.
Eight Person: We have no knowledge of the time involved between the commandment given and the commission of sin between Adam and eve; not to my knowledge anyway.
Seventh Person: Maybe time was not in existence. Could it be that God created time, so that man might be saved. If we had to exist in eternity with our sinful nature, God would have to annihilate us. So how long before he sinned? It cannot be measured, because there was no time.
Sixth Person: Time began with the creation of Adam, Gen. 5. I should have said, Bible Chronology (time) began with the creation of Adam, not with the creation of the world, Gen. 5.
Seventh Person: Could there be a difference between time and Chronology? There will come "time", when time will be no more. I believe, that time was God's way of saving mankind.
Sixth Person: The beauty of bible-chronology is that it begins with the creation of man and ends with the crucifixion of Christ. I agree with your statement Garland, but here does it say 'time will be no more', I just looked and can't find it?
Ninth Person: Rev. 10:6; says this; And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there (should be time no longer:) Other translations state, "there shall be no more delay."
Fifth Person: Time is just a fragment of eternity given to mankind for the purpose of salvation.
Tenth Person to Originator: I believe enmity against God began with Adam in the garden . He wanted to be God, are like God.
Eleventh Person: Adam pleased His wife. Adam had no inclinations toward being God, that's ludicrous. Enmity began for Mankind in the Garden, enmity truly began in Heaven by Satan.
